Why is the pro-choice logic so hard to understand?
All these questions along the lines of 'how can people support abortion and be against the death penalty/Iraq Wart/etc.?' are really annoying and miss the pro-choice point entirely.
The pro-choice point of view is that a fetus is not a person. A fetus lives off the resources of the mother and is more like a parasite than a person. Once it reaches approximately the 3rd trimester, the fetus could potentially live outside the womb and seems to develop a 'consciousness', therefore most people agree that 3rd trimester abortions should be illegal.
Equating fetuses with people doesn't apply to this argument. Why is it so hard for pro-lifers to understand that pro-choicers don't consider fetuses to be people?
part of the reasoning a person has problems understanding the locic behing pro choice is because the logic behind it is rather flaky. they often say you cant tell me what to do with my body but the laws in this country disagree, i can't sit at home and take herion all day.
The other part of the logic is that the viability standard is flawed because babies can be viable earlier and earlier with medicine.
My personal belief is that states should have a right to make any laws concerning abortion at all and that the privacy part of the constitution(that was made up) does not exist for medical choices concering all bodly functions.
i have a question do all pro-abortion people also have to be against drug laws? try your logic on that,
Pro choicers also believe that the gov't has no place in the bedroom or in our bodies.
Hmmm...that's pro-abortion logic, not pro-choice. Pro-choice may or may not be against abortion. I, personally, am a conservative who is pro-choice but anti-abortion. I would not do it myself. I do believe, however, that I don't want the government or some religious group to dictate my decisions for my family. That should be left up to my husband and myself. If, for some reason, I choose to terminate a pregnancy, I should not be denied medical care.
As for your explanation on fetuses v people, I saw and heard my son's heartbeat at 6 weeks. At 8 weeks, the doctor could get the intra-vaginal ultrasound probe close enough to see or hear his heartbeat because every time he got near it, my son would wave it away. He may not be able to live without me at 8 weeks, but, using that logic, he couldn't live without me at 2 months outside the womb, either. If your explanation helps you feel better, you use it, but your logic is flawed.
Were you a 'parasite' inside your mom?
If you weren't human in your mom, what were you?
A human is human from conception to death.
I am pro-choice until viability, but I understand their reasoning seeing they believe a person has a soul from conception.
What Rachel said.
From my perspective, the pro-choice viewpoint is more a matter of individual liberty/privacy than it ever was about viabitily of the fetus.
Edit: Conception...Souls...The clot a woman passes during an early-stage miscarriage is DEFINITELY not human.
I have seen my daughters heart beat when she was just a few weeks along...
at 4 months they feel pain...
mine started moving where i could feel her at almost 5 months...she responded to sounds and movments...even my cat purring on my stomach...she also loved the Beatles, she moved constintly when she heard them.
and I take offence to anyone calling my baby a parasite...
They understand your position, they just disagree, because it DOES say in the Bible, that at the MOMENT of conception, you're uniquely specially alive in God's eyes. Now, personally, I have no particular stance on the abortion issue, which lends to me an interesting 3rd-party view on the whole thing.
It really depends on faith at this point, because no scientific answer can measure WHEN a fetus in the womb gains 'consciousness', and for that matter, even define what causes 'consciousness'. I think both sides for the most part understand the other side's argument, it's just they have a different level of faith in what the Bible says vs. what their opinion on the matter is.
Adolph Hitler considered most of the earth's population to be sub-human, 'untermenschen', and murdered them in cold blood, but even Hitler failed to kill as many human beings as the pro-choice movement.
How can you believe fetuses before the third trimester to be 'untermenschen', when the heartbeat can be detected soon after conception?.
It appears that you are 26 years old. You have a lot to learn.
I believe just the opposite.a fetus is a growing baby.
God said he knew us while in the womb. A moral and
caring society cares for the unborn and the borned. It
is a tragedy to scrape a baby in pieces and parts from
a woman's womb and discard it. The pieces look like
a baby's parts (arms, legs, feet) as it truly is. Why can't
people use birth control (of which there are lots of
different methods) instead of letting it happen and then
murdering the results? Can't you see this? It's not that
hard to understand.
It's not a choice, it's murder.
I do understand that you don't consider fetuses to be people.
I also find that argument very stupid and ignorant.
I also think anyone who equates a fetus to a parasite should be sterilized for life, as they have no business being parents.
Pro-abortion logic is not hard to understand. We know that you don't consider fetuses to be people, to justify murder, and so you can sleep better at night after doing it. If you dictate something as inanimate and de-humanize it, it hurts a little less and feels less immoral. It's your own personal guilt trip.
Edit to answer additional details:
If having a heartbeat and limbs does not make you a person, then exactly, what does? A heartbeat means blood and oxygen is pumping through your body, it's the most important organ to humanity. To have a heartbeat means you are ALIVE.
Humans do not carry monkeys within their bodies, nor do monkeys carry humans. That's a weak argument and irrelevant.
Are you saying that those that were born without appendages, or those that had to have their legs or arms amputated are not human? Are you saying that those that required heart transplants or pacemakers are not human? Even if someone is lying on a table with no heartbeat, they were still a living, breathing, conscious human being at some point. You really have some issues.
Hmm. If it says in the Bible that you are 'uniquely special' in God's eyes from the moment of conception, how come the Leviticus prescribes the death penalty for adultresses regardless of whether or not they are pregnant? Why isn't there any provision to wait until the adulteress gives birth before putting her to death? Why is it also, according to the Leviticus, that if someone causes a woman to miscarry, he merely owes a monetary fine to the husband? If the Bible indeed regarded an embryo as a fully-fledged human being, shouldn't someone who causes a woman to miscarry be put to death for murder?
Senior Citizen: Playing the Hitler card would be effective, except that abortion was illegal in Nazi Germany -- at least for Germans. Interesting, isn't it? Not to compare the pro-life crowd to the Nazis generally, as you did with the pro-choice camp, but I find that pro-lifers and the Nazis have one thing in common -- both treat 'unborn life' with much greater respect than 'afterborn' life.
PS: A useful reference: The overwhelming majority of abortions occurs in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. And we are not 'pro-abortion'. We are pro-choice. We support the choice to complete the pregnancy as much as the choice to terminate it.
Ramble On and Beathomenow: Good for both of you. Notice no one tried to make you have an abortion. No one forced to you have children, either. You exercised a choice. Other people should have a choice also, just like you did. And it is rather presumptious on your part to suggest that just because you felt a certain way about your pregnancy, others should also. And if you think that something should be made illegal just because you may 'regret it later' -- then perhaps the government should make ALL of life's decisions for you.
Becuase they think that their morals are everyone's morals. If you don't like abortion, then don't get one. If you want to do something about it, then go to the freaking clinic and talk to the women there, try to persuade them. Help them get prenatal care and find an adoptive parent. But don't sit on your high horse and try to pass laws against abortion...that will do nothing but cause a lot of deaths in basements at the hands of knitting needle abortion clinics.
I do understand that pro-lifers *cling* to their fetus explanation dearly. Can you argue that if that fetus were left alone, that in the majority of cases it would become an individual human being? That's the one shot that fetus has for living life in this world as an individual human being. Just like you.
Answers:
By most pro-life logic taking a pill that prevents implantation of a zygote, like most birth control pills would be murder. It is amazing how many women murder babies on a daily basis.
We have to draw the line at life somewhere, I agree with that in which the child can sustain itself. Otherwise yes, by definition it is a parasite.
I think when you decide to make to choice and be a grown up and you decide to have *** if you get pregnant you need to accept the responsibility of what you caused to happen. I am pro life I had a child out of wedlock i decided to make the choice to have *** when i was young and had a child but i also got pregnant and dealt with the consequences most people that have abortions will regret it later.
I know abortions are awful, but there are a lot of awful reasons that they should be legal. If we respected women in this country, we wouldn't let old white men legislate what they must do with their bodies.
Pro-lifers in government also tend to be for abstinence only sex-education and reduced funding of birth control for poor women, both of which lead to more unwanted pregnancies.
Also, the bible was written by MEN, not god, so stop citing it as your source for why abortion should be illegal.
Go take a look at an abortion, watch what the 'doctor' sucks and/or scraps out of the mothers womb at 8 weeks, 10 weeks, 12 weeks, whatever, then come back and say it's only a parasite.
Before I formed thee in the belly, I knew thee. Jer 1:5
Why is it so difficult for 'pro-choicers' to understand that they are supporting the murder of unborn children?
If a 'fetus' is not a child, but a 'parasite', when does it become a person? If you look at ultrasound images, it will clearly show development of the child at an early stage. It is sickening that people support the callous murder of the unborn by the disgusting practices of abortionists. It is rationalization to suggest--laughably--that the child is not a child, regardless of the state of development in the uterus.
One amusing incident with the pro-choice crowd was when Sheila Jackson Lee (a liberal Democrat from Texas) was marching in a 'pro-choice' assemblage, carrying a sign that said she was partipating in the pro-choice rally because her mother couldn't. A prime example of the intelligence of a liberal.
